drew sagan

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Posts by drew sagan

• 
  40

  1942 Consolation on Beth Sarim PDF

  by cabasilas in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!

  ) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.

  it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.

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  drew sagan

  So, you mean the Judge might be a Methodist now? :) Sorry, had to say that.

  Lol

  The audio by Barbera mentions that it was a Methodist Church, so I think it's pretty safe to say we have the correct place. The lots are numbered rather sparadically with many numbers in between missing (1,14,100, ect). Safe to say there may have been many more lots at one time. Only historical property maps can reveal what was going on with the space. I found a few places that have maps on file but you have to go there and dig through them . This seems like it will be a long term project.

  I know that people say the grave is unmarked, but I've never heard that from somebody that actually went to the Church grounds and did some searching.
• 
  40

  1942 Consolation on Beth Sarim PDF

  by cabasilas in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!

  ) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.

  it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.

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• 

  drew sagan

  Using the power of the internet I have dug up some info about the Staten Island property.

  Fist of all, when you are checking out the property at the google link I posted above, make sure to use Satellite view. You can see all kinds of scattered graves surronding the site, as well as a very odd rectangular layout in the back (probably graves?)

  In order to find out if the Watchtower actually still has ownership to the property I used some tools provided by the City of New York. Each property in NYC is coded through a serious of numbers that represent borough-block-lot.

  Staten Island is borough 5 and the block number for this area is 6110. The lot for the Methodist Church is 1. (giving us a property number for the church of 5-6110-1)

  You can do a search for a 'digital tax map' at this website. Here you can see a visual represetnation of the churces property, as well as other properties surronding it.

  THE CONCLUSION? It appears that the Watchtower no longer holds the rights to the property in Staten Island! I could have missed something, but as it stands we are at a dead end.

  BUT!

  Barbera Anderson described the property as being a 100x100 lot (or something like that). For those of you that look at the tax map, make sure to take a look at lot #14. It is a 100x50 lot that looks as though it has been carved out of the churches property. Could it be that this is the Watchtowers lot? Did they sell the property to people who eventually built a home on it? Or was the original wathctower property simply sold to the chruch (and is essentially mixed in with everything that is there).

  Without finding the historical records we do not know.

  Anybody know where to look? I've never done this before, but it's a lot of fun
• 
  40

  1942 Consolation on Beth Sarim PDF

  by cabasilas in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!

  ) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.

  it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.

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  drew sagan

  For what it's worth, if I ever get the money, I'm buying Beth Sarim
• 
  40

  1942 Consolation on Beth Sarim PDF

  by cabasilas in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!

  ) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.

  it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  drew sagan

  My friend asked Fred Franz where Judge Rutherford was buried. Franz replied, "Beth Sarim." Perhaps he was getting senile? Or, did he feel that it wouldn't hurt to tell the truth?

  Barbara Anderson relates this story in an audio clip on Freeminds. It seems that we have two possible locations.

  Either he actually is buried in Beth Sarim (possible in the garage?) or is in a small plot of land owned by the WTS on staten island. The plot is actually in or around a United Methodist Church. It is still there today, and you can see the space on google maps:

  http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&q=woodrow+united+methodist+church,+staten+island,+ny&fb=1&split=1&gl=us&cid=0,0,6903502942454520195&ei=YJtbSrnZHIHANdDb0EI&z=16&iwloc=A

  I wonder if anybody from that Church would be willing to give assistance in finding exactly where the plot of land is
• 
  40

  1942 Consolation on Beth Sarim PDF

  by cabasilas in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!

  ) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.

  it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  drew sagan

  Perhaps he was getting senile? Or, did he feel that it wouldn't hurt to tell the truth?

  I'll vote senile

  I know that those who have visited the graves at Watchtower farms say he is not there.

  Any active publishers in good standing want to write a letter to the society?
• 
  40

  1942 Consolation on Beth Sarim PDF

  by cabasilas in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the may 27, 1942 consolation (the precusor to awake!

  ) contained a lengthy 16 page article about the failed attempts of the watchtower society to bury judge rutherford at his beloved home in san diego, beth sarim.

  it contains a fascinating look into the place beth sarim held for jws during this period.

  1. 
  2. 
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• 

  drew sagan

  Very interesting!

  Question: This is the only article I have ever seen that directly mentions Rutherfords burial. It states:

  After the judge's decision those handling the matter of burial decided that there was no use to appeal to higher courts of California, which would delay the burial one year. They decided to proceed with the burial immediately. The remains of J. F. Rutherford, accompanied by the mortician, Mr. Lewis, were then sent east, for interment at Watchtower, radio station "VBBR, Staten Island, New York. Adjoining the Society's property there is a burial plot, and the remains of Judge Rutherford were interred alongside others of his brethren with whom he had fought a good fight against the Devil's organization for many years. Burial was made in the Society's plot at sunrise, Saturday, April 25, 1942.

  Does this solve the mystery in any way? Or at th very least give us some clues?
• 
  12

  Saw an ad on TV for the Bible Students last night...

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  caught the very end of the commercial.

  they were giving away a brochure called "science and creation".. i wanted to figure out which group was specifically behind the ad, but failed to remember the toll free number in full.. i know for sure that it was 1-800-???-dawn.

  just curious to know who is advertising in my area..

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  drew sagan

  The DAWN, while just a publishing house (so they claim) is still the largest of the Bible Student groups.

  Care to elaborate?
• 
  12

  Saw an ad on TV for the Bible Students last night...

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  caught the very end of the commercial.

  they were giving away a brochure called "science and creation".. i wanted to figure out which group was specifically behind the ad, but failed to remember the toll free number in full.. i know for sure that it was 1-800-???-dawn.

  just curious to know who is advertising in my area..

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  drew sagan

  1-888-440-DAWN
  
  There is a member here that is with Dawn Bible Students. Care to comment?

  I know it wasn't them. I'm positive it was an 800 number and that there was a two in the middle somewhere. Althought seeing the "DAWN" is what made me suspect is was a Bible Student group. They did not provide a website . I looked on the DAWN's website and saw the brochure they were offering. It must be some group that is associated with the Dawn as RR said.
• 
  12

  Saw an ad on TV for the Bible Students last night...

  by drew sagan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  caught the very end of the commercial.

  they were giving away a brochure called "science and creation".. i wanted to figure out which group was specifically behind the ad, but failed to remember the toll free number in full.. i know for sure that it was 1-800-???-dawn.

  just curious to know who is advertising in my area..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  drew sagan

  Caught the very end of the commercial. They were giving away a brochure called "Science and Creation".

  I wanted to figure out which group was specifically behind the ad, but failed to remember the toll free number in full.

  I know for sure that it was 1-800-???-DAWN. I believe the "???" had a 2 and a 4 in it. Just curious to know who is advertising in my area.
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  100

  1975 coverup! Compare the '68 and '81 Truth book scans

  by JimmyPage in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the wt society pointed to 1975 as the date for the end of the world.

  when the date came and went they changed their publications to remove themselves from the fiasco.

  need proof?

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• 

  drew sagan

  What is most important to recognize about these quotes is how nuanced they are. They specifically do not lay out a prediction, but imply it heavily.

  When somebody believes that the author of the book is part of the "faithful slave", a "chosen class" of people within divine backing, subtle things like this make a big difference.

  But the relationship of power between the WTS and its members can never be derived strictly from a book. Because of this, JW apologists will always argue that there was never a "specific" prediction.

  Whether there actually was one or not is beside the point. Once you take into consideration the leader/servant relationship its easy to see how such explicit talk was never needed. The followers look to the leader for guidance, and believe whatever they say with great credulity. The Watchotwer (and its believers) will always deny that this is the arrangment, but history shows a different story.